*The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

As Good or Better Than Riding?

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:53 pm

$25 later and I have the last known spring to suit the rebound needle in a 690 and thankfully it fits the 1190 :yo:

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Pull the whole damn thing apart again to fit it

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And YES, we now have a spring loaded needle as it should be like the comp side

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:yo: :yo: :yo:

Hope this is the last time for a while.

FYI, the rebound stack

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Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:08 pm

Ok, to say Im annoyed and frustrated with my forks was yesterday....
No Im totally pissed off at what I found today.

I went for a little ride after fixing the oil heights and missing spring debacle and to say its crap, is a complete understatement.
The suspension is just absolutely shit...
So nasty and harsh that Im just fed up with it completely.
The suspension does not move at all on small bumps and just rattles your teeth.
For 5000klms Ive been trying to convince myself that it must be me, its not that bad but IT IS!!!

So since I thought I fixed the problem with the missing spring and heights and to find its just as bad now just blew me away.
The next thing to do short of driving to "the service provider" with a fecken chainsaw was to pull apart the compression side to see what going on in there.

The first thing I see is this!!!
FFS, look at that gap, its supposed to be 2.3mm
Its 3.5 mm

THE FECKEN PISTON IS UPSIDE DOWN
The nut shaft should fit into the counterbore on the valve

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The shoulder/shaft on the nut should fit into the counterbore, thats what sets the check valve height.
This was assembled upside down.

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SO annoyed about now

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The base valve seems as it should be with a check valve gap of 1.5mm, at least thats one thing right so far.

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So far:

OIL WAS OVER FILLED
REBOUND NEEDLE LOST/MISSING
COMPRESSION MID VALVE PISTON UPSIDE DOWN

Im so pissed off at this level of epic fail, I just dont know what to do, its the worst Ive experienced.
The shim stack is shit, what the feck do I do now!

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Its the crappy shim stack so dont know if thats worth a squirt of piss either!!

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Ive reassembled everything as it should be and I would have reset everything back to stock but I cant use any of the current shims to do that because its all so different
I will try it again with the current shim stacks, properly assembled and see what happens
Understandably my expectation cannot get any lower and if its still shit, then something else will have to be done, dont know what though.

I suppose the question I need to ask is, was the bloke that did it a stoner or a drunk because no sober person would make such an epic screw up of this :boozer: :boozer:
Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:05 pm

Reassembled everything as it should be with the Promoto stacks and it still feels crap, no small bump compliance and insufficient rebound damping.
Although I really dont know what Im doing and my "perception on how it feels could be incorrect, Ive come up with my own stack to try.
I feel it has way too much small bump resistance but ok on the bigger hits and not enough rebound so I figured Id better give it a go myself since theres no one around here to get a good job from.
So based on the OEM stacks and what I "think" is wrong.

What could possibly go wrong :imaposer:

Any feedback would be appreciated.
I have a choice of OEM 0.55 springs, 0.59 and 0.63.
Since Ive lost some weight I was going to use the 0.59 for this, opinions?
I will probably set up with the 0.63.
I weigh 94kg (205 lbs)

Thanks for any feedback.

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Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:19 am

After a little ride yesterday, its much better than ol mates setup, the the low speed compression much is better, it actually moves freely.
Maybe too freely????
The transition into higher speed comp is still excessive and harsh and there still isnt enough rebound to cope with the 0.63 springs.
At least Im in range of the clickers but Im nearly at minimum comp and max with rebound BUT I could nearly live with it as its working ok.
Will try and make some mods to those stacks today but still working out what to do or if I should do anything before I get hold of a selection of shims to play with.

Still pretty much all guesswork!
Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:18 pm

It feels as if the initial movement is nice and plush maybe a bit too much but as speed increases, it stiffens up FAST.
I thought Id try the inverted base valve stacks as per the OEM plus 0.1 bleeds and see how that goes.
The OEM Base stacks have a lot of bleed at 0.2 x 16.

Still seems way under damped so I was going to add some intermediate size shims into the rebound and remove the bleed altogether???

Removed the bleed from the rebound stack as well as beefing up the rebound as well.
The base valves, Im trying the inverted stacks as per the OEM to loose some comp as it was still too much

Like I said, I really dont know what Im doing :lolno:

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For this setup I had to machine the retaining nut shoulder to reduce the check valve gap

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Very difficult to set up this little guy as is had to have less than 0.01 runout on the front face.
Only removed 0.3mm, 6.50 to 6.20mm

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Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:27 am

All back together.
Will try again on the weekend....fingers crossed. :pray:
Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:31 pm

Went for a ride today after the 4th iteration of shim stacks and Im pleased to say its finally starting to feel the way it should and a million times better than its been for the last 6000 k's.
Damn thing was dangerous!
Bike feels so much more planted and the skittish hard, harsh front end feeling is gone.
Best its ever been "I think" and certainly better than old mates effort!
The clickers are in a usable range now.
Its not "awesome" by any stretch but its reasonable and manageable and feels like a hoot of a bike again with the front and rear feeling balanced all of a sudden!

Nice ride to test it out.

Its not too bad now and I wont be doing anymore for the moment, just dont know enough yet and need more k's to access.

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Cowabunga dudes .......

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nevgriff64
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by nevgriff64 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:07 pm

Great to see its back together and behaving itself again for you mate. :thumb:

Well done for the diagnosis and the repair too.

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:48 pm

Still a work in progress :boozer:
Cowabunga dudes .......

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1coolbanana
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Re: The 1190 R.....Here we go Again :-)

Post by 1coolbanana » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:05 pm

Im heading away next weekend and want to get the suspension a bit better for the trip
Have ordered a bunch of shims and hopefully they arrive tomorrow and I can get it back together.

I will essentially go back to a similar setup to stock but with a couple of changes
* Added rebound resistance to cope with the .63 springs (instead of .55)
* More high speed comp
* Bleed on the comp stacks to make it a bit more plush in the initial movememt of the stroke
In theory anyway.
Got to be better than how its been!

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Cowabunga dudes .......

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